Unbankable with Alex Shvarts

Welcome back [music] to Unbankable, the podcast for entrepreneurs who won't take no for an answer. I'm Alex Schwarz, CEO and founder of Fun Kite. My next guest went from working alongside one of the biggest names in music to building one of Miami's most recognizable food brands. And he did it the hard way. Derek Turtton, known as Chef Teach, is the founder of world famous House of Mac. He pivoted out of entertainment, launched a food truck in Windmood, survived CO and is still standing, shipping nationwide through Gold Belly, and now serving fans inside Lone Depot Park and with the Miami Marlins. This is a story about reinvention, resilience, and what it actually costs to build something real when [music] the world keeps changing the rules on you. Derek, welcome to Unbankable. Thank you so much for having me, man. I like that, man. You did your research. I It's not really me, man. I'm illiterate. I I just have a really really good team. [snorts] My research was, you know, spending the first 10 minutes and and the vibe and you're from Brooklyn and, you know, I lived in Brooklyn a long long long time. And and just a just a good energy, man. And I I could see your success in everything you touch, man. You just you come off that way, man. Thank you so much. And and that and that's important. So, I'm going to call you teach cuz everybody else does, right? And you're going to teach some folks here that are listening to our podcast, you know, how to do things, right? Avoid the mistakes. Absolutely. Maybe a shortcut even though there are no shortcuts in life, right? Yeah. You know, all right. Teach you were working around celebrities success and one of the biggest names in music, right? Then you walked away to sell mac and cheese from a food truck. That's incredible, right? Most people would have thought that you were crazy, right? What made you believe in yourself when everyone else would have played it safe? Um, so I used to um, so I used to manage pitbull for like 14 years, like from the beginning career and um, you know, I was in the music business for about 20 years. But um, the the the thing so my logo, if you look at my logo, it's a picture of my dad. It's like a guy, a caricature with a guy with a big afro. And we're going to just put up the logo right now for people to see. So, my father passed away suddenly in 2013. And um I think like the finality of his death kind of like hit a light switch in me cuz I felt like at that point in my career, my career was building other people's career, building other people's wealth, building other people's legacy. And when I sat in the room with my father for like, you know, after he passed and I sat with him for like two, three hours in a in a hospital room till his body got cold and it was just like, yo, this is it. Like, this is it. There's no doovers, no more time, you know? And I think that's a mistake a lot of people make is like you think you got all this time. And the finality of that kind of hit a light switch in me and it made me want to start focusing on um my my legacy and you know start building my wealth. You know I make money and stuff like that doing music but it's just like you just don't really control your own destiny at the end of the day. Like you you could work with an artist and they could wake up one day and say I don't want to do this no more. Like you know it's like a high paid job at the end of the day. And I wanted to do something that I felt like, you know, at the end of the day, I could leave this to my family. I could leave this to my kids. It's something I could pass on. And um so I took a leap of faith. And uh at first I jumped into so so um Bun B from the legendary UGK. Um he's the one that kind of I used to cook for him. So all the artists I used to work with, I used to work with ASAP Rocky, I used to, you know, I work with Pit and every time it was anything festive, I would always they like give Teach the Food Budget because, you know, when they go to record and stuff like that, they get food budgets to buy food for recording and stuff like that. And if the if the studio had a kitchen, they would say, "Give T give Teach the budget." And I would go cook and it it became like the thing. And I used to cook for Buny all the time when Buny used to come down here. And Bun Buny is from uh Big Pimping uh Jay-Z and and um so he's a really good friend of mine. He was the one that kind of had to talk with me and was like, "Man, you got to take this cooking thing more seriously." And every time he would say, "Do this." I would give him a reason why I'm not because I was flying private. I'm, you know, like, "I'm not going back in no kitchen." And he was like, "Yeah, I know." Let alone go into a food truck, right? Yeah. So, the idea wasn't even necessarily to go into a food truck at first. The idea, the first thing was to convince me to like start a business doing food. And I was just like, I'm not going back in the kitchen. And he sat me down one day and basically had to talk with me. and he's just somebody I I regard really highly and I gave him my word I was going to do it. So once once I started doing the research of a restaurant, I'm like doing a food truck was a more cost effective way to kind of penetrate the market than going to spend a million dollars trying to build out a restaurant or something like that. So I went the food truck route and it was like I started I still was working for uh Polar Grounds Music Sony at the time. So, I would be on conference calls with the with the phone in one ear on a conference call and then I'm on the truck at the same time and they're like, "Hey, somebody's making a bunch of noise and put your phone on mute." And I tried to do both at the same time and and and it got to a point where it's like I got to make a decision because from an integrity standpoint, I felt like I wasn't giving the artist 100% anymore. So, I had to make a decision and I chose to bet on myself. So, stepped away in. Did people think you were making a mistake leaving? Yeah, because everybody looks at the music business as being I mean, don't don't get me wrong, the music business could change your life. The music business, you know, it it it could be considered a dream job to a lot of people. Um, but you know, my my reasons for stepping away with different it wasn't just about money. It was about I I felt like I couldn't really build I didn't want my legacy to be plaques on the wall and a couple of dollars in the bank. I want my legacy to be something that I could pass down to my kids. And I see the music business providing that for me. So, I needed to find that thing for me. Was there a moment after you made the change where you questioned yourself? Yeah, a bunch of times because when my first food truck that I bought was a lemon. [snorts and laughter] So, you know, I learned really quick like the the the business, you know, but I but but you know, it's like a loss is not a loss, it's a lesson, right? Like my first food truck, I bought a I bought and I bought it cash, right? And so spent like $90,000 cash bu you know, then building this thing out and all of that. and the food truck. Apparently, you don't buy a food truck from anywhere north of um Tennessee because the rust sits in snow and and it and it rust the chassis and stuff like that. So, I didn't see I didn't know that about a food truck. I had to learn the hard way. So, you don't really even buy used cars, you know, north of a certain state because they get beat up more. You know, I remember when we try to buy used cars, you know, we did it come from Florida cuz, you know, better streets and less snow and bad weather, right? So, those food trucks, a lot of a lot of the food trucks are like the old Lays trucks or the old FedEx trucks and P. Oh, okay. And those things that and they redo them. Yeah. Yeah. And they redo them, but they're built to take a beating, right? Like, you know, you could put 200, 300, 400,000 miles on them things and they still go. But, um, I built like a $100,000 kitchen on a rusted chassis. So, it was like a brand new kitchen. Everything were Were you able to take out the kitchen and put it into the new No, I took a I I I ended up We went through some legal stuff on that and I ended up just taking a loss. But I ended up my second food truck was a brand new truck. Um my second food truck was a brand new truck. Um a friend of mine paid 160,000 for it and once he got into the business was like, "Yeah, this is not for me." And um I was able to finance that for him. So, I was able to get a 2016, you know, at the time, 2016 truck with only 5,000 mi on it. And that one, you know, that one I made, you know, and I paid $1 I paid $125,000 for the truck and I made $2.4 million on the truck first year. So, how much? I did 2.4 like $2.4 million. So, I was going to ask you, was there a moment when you thought you might, you know, when that the house of Mac might not survive? Yeah. I mean, I mean, I I feel like that's just, by the way, what's going on? Is it the ch-ing from the truck every time? You look like No, somebody like chinging the mac and cheese right now or I wish. No, I got my I got the watch on, but my phone is I know. I got the same problem. Right. But, um, yeah, like you know, just kind of stepping out on faith. I mean, it's just a lot of moments where um, you know, it's like, yo, did I make the right decision? I mean, cuz that's when you step out on faith, it's always going to be those moments and it's going to test you. But I also learned like through working with a lot of the artists that I that I work with, it's like the magic kind of normally comes like when you're kind of like outside of your your comfort zone, you know what I mean? And you have to kind of step outside of that comfort zone to to find those things. So because I went through that with pit and because I went that through that with so many people I work with um when I started feeling that when I was trying to build my own thing I I related it to to something else because I knew that like most of the people that like I've seen successful Damon Johns like you know you sit and you talk with these dudes they got so many nos and so many people didn't believe in them before the magic act actually happened and then when the magic happened it happened right so did you ever like at any moment say you know what I'm going back to music. Um, like really give it some deep thought. There's been times where I was like, yo, like I need to figure something else out. But, but also like my pride was like, you know, it was like running away from home or like leaving the house and you kind of stepped out and it's like I know I could go back and my mom my parents would let me back in, but now I'm I'm outside so I got to I got to figure it out. So there was times where like things got tough and you know but I don't think it was ever like y I want to go back and do that because I kind of fell out of love with the music business right I got you okay so the trajectory was pretty good right you you get into the good the good truck and cash is starting to flow in and you had a good first year you said right? Yeah, we had a we had a great first year and I think like the best thing that I got from the music business was just being able to have these relationships where um they showed up and they supported me. So, okay, you know, I've had Trick Daddy, Fat Joe, like show up and that that was huge. Food truck at the time. So, like ASAP Ferg did like an album release party at like my food truck. So, that gave you a lot of um Yeah. And so like from a promotion from a promotional standpoint that that would those are things I couldn't even pay for. You know what I mean? Venus and Serena Williams booked me to do like the the Williams Invitational um in in West Palm Beach and stuff like that. So like that kind of exposure. So you were able to leverage and I guess people must have liked you from the music business, right? People must have like you must have been and I get that vibe. you're likable and you're you can just tell, you know, that you you have relationships and and people care and they and they and they they came through for you, right? So, I think that was it more than anything else. I think it was relationships and yeah, like I mean, you know, I've I've the music business is, you know, it's it's relationships and being able to maneuver and and and and connect dots and and um I I was able to build some really good relationships um in in, you know, my in my time in in the music business and yeah, like I mean, and and so like even when I did like barbecues in my house and stuff like that, like like Flow Rider would be at my house or like Joan Stra from NBC 6 or like Pit or like whoever and these are people in my backyard and I'm cooking, but then they're talking about, you know, I'm getting hungry. Listen, I got you a time. You better believe it, man. But but these are guys that are talking about my food. So, it was like they were kind of like my brand ambassadors. They were amplifying my brand, but not not anything that I pay for, not anything I asked for. It just happened kind of like organically. You know what I mean? So, you know, so the magic just kind of lined up. How are you funding the uh how are you funding the House of Max? So, where's the money coming from? Well, when I first started it, um, you know, I I even when I even when I stopped working with with Pit, you know, it was just kind of like amicable. It was just like, you know, I want to step off and kind of deuce. And he he gave me like some he gave me like a few hundred,000 just like, yo, just whatever you need to do, figure out whatever you need to do. And then I had a few dollars. So, like I when I went into it, I kind of I I selfunded it. Um Um, but then, you know, like Was there ever a time where you became under capitalized when you started to grow? Yeah, I mean it it was there was many times I had to, you know, there were times where I had to um How'd you raise the money? I had to pull I had to do what I had to do. I mean the good thing about you know my pride gets in the way sometimes so I don't really like asking for help but but but the the what work for me is that um I have people around me that love me and they do well and I don't really ask for anything. So, um, but they also saw like how I believed in other people. And I think when I stepped out and they were in a position to help me, they, you know, even if I didn't have to ask, they they they might have offered or whatever, like because they they know I might be too proud to ask, whatever the case be, but there there's a there's a few guys You did a lot of good to get there, man. Well, I mean, I I I I just try to keep my face clean, man, because I think, you know, that's, you know, it doesn't matter what field you're in, whether it's music, food, whatever business you're in. It's like you want to What What's the biggest money mistake you made? Biggest money besides the lemon truck. I would probably say that probably was that truck. um just because I bought it cash. But what I didn't uh the reason why I was able to kind of bounce back on that because she tried to make me sign a um an ASIS clause because I went with cash, I was like, I don't feel comfortable signing that, but she saw a stack of money. So, she's like, "All right, we'll get back to that." And then when the truck started having problems, she tried to dig back in the drawer and say, "Well, you you bought this as is." And I was like, "By the way, I never signed that." And we we ended up going to court and got a lot of that stuff resolved. But um you know I I I will say one of the biggest money mistakes that I made was during co you know I try to be smart I you know I I reserve 6 months I try to do all this kind of stuff but I I wasn't ready for the world shutting down for two years. Nobody was. And when things started falling apart, I had like employees like my my, you know, I had like 75 employees at that time. And I was trying to help everybody, right? Because people, you know, things were messed up and people was getting evicted and people cars was getting repoled and all kind of stuff was going on. And I was trying to help everybody. And I I I feel like I thought with my heart more than I thought my brain at a certain point. Um and I overextended myself and then CO started getting real and it was like okay we're going on S. So I had I had just um I just invested 650,000 in um in Bright Line. I was like one of the first businesses that invested in the Bright Line and the food in the food thing that they did over there and they shut I we opened literally in September or something like that and then CO hit in March, right? So I didn't I wasn't even open for a full year yet and I had just put all this money into this and I'm not a big boy like that. I'm, you know, I'm small business and and so they shut down for a year and then they went into the second year and it's like, okay, I can't I can't do this. So I lost that. And then so CO [clears throat] really took me for a ride and it was just like, you know, CO just felt like it's like you're you're you're in the middle of a ocean paddling and there's a hurricane on the horizon and there's sharks circling you and and there's no help and you don't know how long that you had to do that. So, I feel like ocean was bigger and bigger, right? Yeah. And I just felt like I I overextended myself. Did you go to a bank to try to get help? I' I've never really um I've never really um gone um through a traditional bank because it just never really um like and and another thing like during co it was like the big banks um they're the ones that was like you couldn't even get somebody on the phone. Like even when I had to like when they had like the EIDL loans and I got funded through like some small bank uh incredible bank or something like that. These were the guys that were picking up the phones and it was like Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo, you it was like a 4h hour hold time to get somebody on the phone. So it was just it was just like kind of weird and it's just like so many hurdles and stuff like that. Would you go to a bank today do you think? Um, I mean, depending on the bank, like you don't have confidence that you're going to go to a bank and get what you need, right? Because it's it's like like when you when you start a business, right? It's like you just started a business, but they want to see two years of bank statements. It's like I just started a business. I'm going to show you two years of something that I just started. Did you read like what we do here? Like you just you just keep talking my words, why we're here, why Funkite is here. Did somebody prep you for this, the right words to say or is this life? This is life. This is my this is the reality of what people in business face. I'm I'm being I'm joking around right now, but this is the reality that what you're go what your thought and and it's like it might not even be always true, but at least we're like we already think like banks don't are not there to help us, right? Is that crazy? Yeah. I mean, you know, and I I you know, and and and it is crazy. And I had to learn that the the the hard way because and I've been I put millions of dollars through Wells Fargo and and Chase. I'm, you know, I'm not like one of the big boys that putions I still put millions of dollars through there. So, I I figured like when stuff was going on, I could at least get somebody on the phone or I could at least get some help because even if you're looking at my statements, you see that like I'm putting numbers on the board. I'm not like right and you still couldn't, right? It's just like that's the way it is, you know? So, I mean, to answer your question, I I don't know. Let's get to a little bit more of the positive, right? Um, by the [clears throat] way, all of that made you still stronger and where you are today and those learning curves cuz um, entrepreneurs, you're going to go through that. You're going to have your ups and downs. You're going to have moments that you think you're on top of the world and then, you know, they pull the rug out right from under you. But that makes you stronger, smarter, you know, and you're going to probably do better if you learn from that, right? Tomorrow, if you had another event like that, you know, you can't help others unless you can help yourself first, right? If you're not whole, you can't help others. So that's important as a business owner to make sure you're doing okay before you can, you know, become the Red Cross for everyone else, right? And that's what you did, right? Somebody call it survivors uh survivors remorse. So a friend of mine told me one time I had um uh I forgot the name it was but it's like basically you know because you have like some success you feel you know it's like you guilt guilt to so it's like you want to help everybody. You should never feel guilty about being successful. Well, I had I went through that phase. I don't No, but a lot of people I definitely went through that phase. I don't I'm not I don't think you should throw success around, flaunt it, and, you know, like think you're better than everybody else. No, but you shouldn't feel guilty about being successful, right? Um, all right. Let's talk about the Mar the Marlins deal. I mean, it's it's interesting to me. It's not just PR. It's a PR win, but it's a distribution move, right? So, how do you think about getting into spaces like that? And what does it actually take uh operationally to pull it off? Um so the Marlins is pretty it's pretty simple because like it's a really scaled down menu. Um and they built the kiosk around us like what we need in the in the kiosk. So, I mean, it's it's it's it's pretty simple. And I like I say because we come from a food truck, it's I can pretty much operate under any circumstances like just scaling up or down because the food truck is like, you know, high pressure, small small space. So, um the good thing about the Marlins is like they're they're um um unionized. So, a lot of like the they you know, they provide you with a lot of staff and stuff like that. You just show them what they need to do. Is it more more expensive to do business when it's unionized? It's it's well it's um the the the deals in there are like percentage based but like so we went in we went into the Marlin Stadium with Pepsi. Um Pepsi is um Pepsi does like our vending and stuff like that. They actually have um a pop-up booth in the Marlin Stadium that they got us in. Um and we went in there. We did a we did a pop-up in there for a week and the popup turned into them seeing like, yo, you got a really good brand and like, you know, seeing people responding to it and not only the c not only the customers but the staff and, you know, everybody was, you know, really um impressed by the food and also the way that we we operated. Um, so that turned into uh Levy Levy Levy. They're the company that runs the um concessions inside of Got there. But they also do Miami Heat. They also do um um the uh the Panthers. The Panthers. They basically do all of the all of the uh the arenas across the country, right? So, concession stand. Concessions. Yeah. So, so we're we're basically having a bigger conversation right now to try to figure out how we could scale um in this. That's awesome. for you. Does a deal like that change how you think about the next phase of growth? My goal is to be able to scale at a rate that I don't um compromise the integrity of my brand, right? Cuz I've seen a lot of guys that people throw money at their brand and they grow and they grow really fast and it's like almost like they crash and burn because um the more they grow and they get um funding pumped into it, they they lose control of their brand and they lose control of the integrity and it just people can tell. You can't fool the consumers. It's like this doesn't taste the same as right it used to taste. The love is not there, you know, the the So, well, I mean that happens a lot when you grow a brand, right? I mean, so how do you keep the originality, the flavor, the that that oomph, right? And and scale, and that's not easy. That's the challenge. So, look, you've got a couple of things going on, right? Um, which and you've got a couple of brands, I understand, going on, right? Gold Belly, what's what's tell tell us about Gold Belly. Gold Belly is like a community of about 5 million people online and and Gold Belly is a platform that you could have Joe Stone Crab or you could have, you know, like it's they they they vet like top restaurants across the country, put them on their platform. So you might want Chicago style pizza from blah blah blah or you might want whatever Philly cheese steak from Philly. They're on there. And then basically um so House of Mac, we're on Goelly. You go on there, you're in Omaha, Nebraska, you in Miami, or you on the website and you like, "Oh, this mac and cheese." We freeze a mac and cheese. Oh. And get it to over and overnight it. So, Go Belly is like a a platform that we can deliver um Oh, okay. Nationally. Got it. Got it. Let me ask you a question. What actually makes money as opposed to like what just builds a brand? Um, so I mean it's just different layers, right? cuz the the so for the for instance so we have a food truck we have go belly we have um you know we have concessions we have the restaurant I would say about the restaurant for a second so I would say the restaurant margins are probably the the lowest especially right now because everything that's going on with the economy and you know with the government and stuff like that. So between the tariffs and the um the the the fuel prices, we're being because everything that comes to us on the truck, we're paying more for it. And so we're making the restaurant is a little tricky right now because we're making less and then we're making less because the economy is hurting. So people are, you know, they don't have as much expendable income and then but we're we're we're paying more for the delivery of goods or cost of goods and all that. Right. Right. So we're paying more and we're we're making less. But then my profit margins on the truck for instance like the restaurant you know healthy restaurant maybe 10% margin right um right now may like they're like a successful restaurant is at like 3 4%. Right. Right. Food truck is like 40% margin right because my truck is fully paid off. I don't have to I don't have any overhead on that. I'm only paying gas propane cost of food and it only takes me two or three people on the truck to make maybe three people at the most truck sometimes. Yeah, I was on the truck yesterday. I love it. I'm coming because the truck is like We're going to bring your truck to the office. Let me know. I got you. Yeah, we I'm I love it. I love I've I've done that before. I bought food trucks to the office. Go down. I would love I would love to. But the the the food truck is like um like a grassroot extension. So, and then with So, my slowest days in the restaurants are Tuesdays and Wednesdays, right? But then when I'm pulling up to um iHeart Media, they their busiest days when they have the most staff in there is Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Right. So you're So instead of waiting for people to come to me, you go to them. That's my extension. And I just go to them and I balance I can balance it out. I love it. If you're enjoying this podcast, click subscribe, drop some comments. Please let me know um what legends in business music, what entrepreneurs you'd like to see and what you'd like to find out from them that's going to help you um expand your business. So, back to teach here. So, you come from entertainment. What did you think you knew about business that reality quickly humbled you? Entrepreneurship is a lonely place because you know certain thing like like I remember like when COVID was happening and it's like you're trying to explain to like a worker be like what's happening and they're like so out of tune. They have no idea like how you're being affected. They just they just like I work pay my check but they don't understand like all the things that are going on around you. Like for instance during co cash cash flow right? Um, we used to have like a lot of people used to come spend cash. When COVID hit, everybody went to Door Dash and Uber Eats and all these kind of things because they thought you were going to come outside and breathe and die. So like it was like let me order my food, you know, contacts and delivery, which was fine. The problem with that is now instead of people coming in and spending cash every day, now Uber Eats is controlling my money or horrible, right? And now they take a lot, not only they take, but then I got to wait for you to pay me. you know, people don't realize and I guess the convenience of, you know, going on, you know, look, whenever I know that a restaurant has its own website. Um, I I just go to the restaurant's website and order from there and just pick it up if I can. People don't realize how much if you love a restaurant, how much you should try to order direct from them because they are, you know, losing 25 30% because Uber Eats is just bandits, right? or you're paying you're or you're paying a luxury tax of 20 you're probably paying 20% more and and and and then these you know fe so I mean I'm I mean Door Dash I think is a better place to go for the consumer but um yeah people don't realize you know how much these restaurants you have to give up but you know and it and it sucks but um but the thing is I had so I still had to go grocery shopping every day I still had payroll every week still had all this and and your cash is tied up now until they pay I got to wait for them to pay me right So um that was uh you know the the the world changed and the way that things kind of evolved just kind of changed and and just trying to find a way to adapt with it was uh very challenging but trying to explain that to people and making them understand it right that's why I say like entrepreneur entrepreneurship is just like a really lonely place cuz it's very rare um when you can find somebody that kind of understands what you're going well you can only really have a conversation with like a fellow entrepreneur to really understand well going through certain things from the words you just shared it's going to be a little bit less lonier place because you know there's not enough um places for I believe entrepreneurs that are struggling to collaborate on ideas and thoughts you've got these um you know seminars that people are selling come listen to me I'll tell you how to succeed I don't I don't believe in those um you know so that's why I I I did this podcast it's just to try to give people some insight from successful people like you who who've gone through it. Um, and they're not alone, man. You know, entrepreneur is a entrepreneurship is a lonely place, right? It's easy when you're successful to talk about it. It's very lonely when you're not and the challenges and you've got family and and people relying on you and employees and you really are alone most of the time. So, I agree with that. What's one mistake um you see that young entrepreneurs make over and over again? What is an entrepreneur to you? It's somebody who goes on their own and trying to build something, right? You got aspiring entrepreneurs that like, you know, what they they just never take the leap and then you got people that actually go take the leap and suffer. Yeah. Take [laughter] build a parachute on the way down. Right. I like that. How to build a parachute on the way down. No, Steve Harvey actually he he Steve Harvey was explaining what entrepreneurship was to him and he's just like it's like literally jumping off a cliff and and like building the parachute on the way down. It's like I'm going to figure it out. The biggest mistake is um losing focus of the vision and paying too much attention to the outside noise. Um because you know it's like it's it's tricky especially when you're doing something that's never been done before because it's like first they laugh and then they follow or whatever, right? And it's like when you have an idea and you know you're going to have the naysayers and the people that don't believe in it and what do you mean and everybody is just like you know and and just stay in the path, right? Like putting that putting the energy in the universe that you're not taking no for an answer and just kind of stay in the path. I think um a lot of people get caught up with the noise and they let people knock them off their square and then you know it's like you let people's opinions and stuff like that mold what the original vision was and then it's like now it turns into something that wasn't even original vision because you let all this outside noise kind of control. So I mean I think sometimes you just got to just stay the course and you got to believe in um you got to believe in what you're trying to do. You got to believe in you. You got to believe in you first. Yeah. But you also have to believe in yourself enough to tell yourself, hey, what I'm doing is not working. I I got to readjust. I got to make changes. You know, that's the hardest thing is to uh to acknowledge, hey, what I'm doing is not working, right? You know, be be truthful to yourself. So, what's the most expensive lesson you've learned? Well, I would say that one of the best things that I have walked away from the music business with is critical thinking, right? Like being able to work with these artists. Every day is a different day, right? And then I work with like Pitbull was totally different from ASAP Rocky. ASAP Rocky was totally different from Yo Gotti. you know, all these artists, they they they move amongst different terrains. Like, you know, when when I had um Pit Ball, it was like we were going to the urban stations and they're like, "Oh, he's too Spanish." And then we walk into the Spanish station, he's too urban. Walking to BT, "Oh, his pants are too tight." And blah blah, you know, it was always these challenges to the point where um we had to recreate, we had to create a lane for him that didn't exist, right? but traveling with him and going to different cities and like like there was one time we went to like um Venezuela or something like that and it was something uh where he didn't get on a flight because something they didn't pay something or something like that and we literally had military dudes with um M16s in the hallway in the hotel like nobody's leaving but luckily pits road manager he cuz the And Pit didn't get on a plane yet. He didn't get on a jet yet. But the band, the dancers didn't get paid. They No, they were they were in Venezuela already. And Pit wasn't there yet. So they're like, "Well, if he doesn't get on the plane, nobody's leaving. So we had to call the consulate. We had to, you know, wow. We had to call the embassy and you know, like, yo, we got a problem. We need to get out of here." And they're like, "Just do whatever you do got to do to get up out of there, right?" But like situations like that, it's like, "Okay, co walk in the park." Like, you know what I mean? in a situation literally depended on it and we have to figure it out in real time. There's no there's no u there's no game plan. You just got to figure it out. So going into the food business, I mean it's it's every every day is a different day as well, but it's like oh the oven went down or so and so the dishwasher called out or blah blah blah and you just got to just figure it out to keep the operation going. And I think the critical thinking helps me maneuver um and be able to adapt to change. Tell me, so you know, you've had success, you've had setbacks. How has your relationship with money changed over the years? Um, well, I think, um, I used to look at like money as like a reward and now I look at money as a tool because money, you know, money helps you grow. Money helps you to expand, money helps you to, you know, just cash flow. You just, you need cash flow. Cash is king. You got to be able to, you know, and and just my perception of money, you know, when I when I was growing up, it was like, you know, when I bought my first Rolex or I bought my first, you know, it was about like these like trophies that, you know, I bought my first Bentley, you know, like, you know, like because, you know, we I came into money without a lot of financial literacy, right? Like it was just like what I saw like you know and and you know when you when you go around a room if I ask him I ask him I ask you I ask different you ask different people like what is your idea of success? What does success mean to you? Are you guys going to have like different um answers depending on where they come from? And you know I grew up in the music business where the music business is you know Scotty and music and you know so it's about jewelry and cars and you know women and you know all this other stuff. So when I first started getting money, it was like, yeah, I bought I bought a Bentley and I bought, you know, I bought, you know, you know, Rolex is is not because it's it's it's more of an investment, but I'm just saying like Bentley is not an investment. Bentley is definitely not an investment. It's like that food truck that was a lemon. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I, you know, I learned that the hard way. So what does wealth mean to you today? Wealth to me now means freedom. So then what's something that money cannot buy? Money can't buy you health. Money can't buy you time. You know, money [snorts] can't money money can't buy you health and money. That's and that's that's what I learned when my my dad died. Like money money can't buy you time. The richest man in the world on the deathbed like Clive Davis just passed away 95 years old. I mean he had a great run. He had he had amazing run but you know all the money all the all nothing is forever my man. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't want to interrupt you before but I I was with my father when he passed away in his final hours. Oh wow. Also so I I really relate to that story. Um and it is a is it is a because you know at least to me my father was my best friend my hero and um he was 94 years old and um it was his time um and so yes you you know you look at life differently. It's just one of those moments that there's many awakening moments we go through in life. Um and it's one of so I relate to you very much that you know um what's what do you what do you take from that moment? What do you realize? you know, right? Um, and so it's different for other, you know, for many people. What makes someone truly a great entrepreneur? Is it, you know, resilience? Is it vision? Is it being able to hear no and keep going? What do you think makes somebody truly I think it's a I think it's a combination of all those things, but I also feel like it's not one size fit all, right? Like um you know what works. like I we could be in a room and I could tell you everything that works for me. It doesn't mean that's going to work for you. You might go about it in a different way. Um but um I think it's a combination all the things you just said before. I mean I think uh it starts with the the like it starts with the individual because you have to believe in yourself and you have to you know you got to really have strong skin because you're going to get nose and you're going to you're going to get disappointments and you're going to you're going to you know you're going to get failure. I saw some um um uh today he's talking about Michael Jordan. He has six win. He has six um six wins but he played for XYZ season. So like because he didn't get a chip the other 15 seasons or whatever the case be does that mean that he was a failure? No. No. It's like you know what I mean? So it's like um you you you have to you have to believe in yourself. And I think I think a a strong entrepreneur is somebody that could take the nose for answers. somebody that you know could take, you know, it's just take the criticism, take whatever, but still kind of keep the focus on what you're trying to build, take the criticism, take all that stuff and just kind of keep it pushing to get to the other side of the vision. Cuz then, you know, once you once once you get to the the promised land, everybody I was always believer, listen, I was there from day one. Let's go back to the music days. What's a lot of money for you then? A couple million dollars. I mean I like then then what was a lot of money when Pit was at his peak there was a point where with Pit right what I saw success he like surpassed that like 100 times you know what I mean it was like it was times where he would I'm getting you know 10 10% 20% whatever he made and it was times where he booked the show and got a million hours on one show and it's like you know what I mean so you know I made I made some decent money a lot what's a lot of money for you today a lot of money for me I mean, I I don't really consider at all. Give me a number. I mean, what's a lot of money, period. Maybe not even for you. What's House of Mac? I mean, House of Mac, the most we've done with House and Mac was about like 8 million a year. Yeah, it's a nice number. Yeah. For Mac and Cheese, I I I I think uh I think that's a nice That's some really My first house off of off of Mac Mac and Cheese, I think I did okay for myself. Is a hund00 million a lot of money today? Today? Yeah. I mean, depending on what you're doing, you know, depending on what you're relative, right? Yeah. It's relative like what you're trying to do with it. Because if you're trying to, you know, you'll be surprised how fast you run through 100 million. If you're like, I'm going to build 100 restaurants, right? Oh, yeah. It depends on what you're doing with it. Yeah. If everything disappeared tomorrow, the restaurants, the money, the brand, and you had to start over with only your experience, how confident would you be? I'm super confident in me. And you you ever you ever heard the saying uh a smooth sea doesn't make a a a skilled sailor? You know what I mean? Like I feel like I like that. A smooth sea doesn't make a a skilled sailor. I like that. You know what I mean? Because you know I feel like all the trials and the tribulations and stuff like that that that I've been through. I think it's it's conditioned me certain lessons I had to learn the hard way to condition me to be able to see things the way that I see things now. But I'm just confident in me. I believe in me and and that's the same way when I look at people like I believe in I believe in people like if I in if I've invested in somebody I would never invest in a a business if I didn't believe in the person that was running the business right like so I think like me first and foremost like I I feel strongly about you know cuz cuz you got you got people that they have aspirations to do these things but I I like executing. I like getting things done and I know I'm going to get it done. I got I got confidence in myself that I get things done. So, I'm I got the full confidence that, you know, if if if I lost it all and I needed to build it back. I mean, I lost it all and I'm building it back. That's it. You still close to Mr. 305? Yeah, it's my guy. It's my guy. He actually did he actually just um they just did an interview on me for he's doing a documentary right now. They just came to my house and did an interview for him. That's nice. I tell you, I went to um a little off topic, but I went to a concert maybe two years ago, three years ago. So, Pitbull was the opening act. Then you had Enrique and Glaciius. And then you had Ricky Martin. Oh, wow. Man, Pitbull was energy, right? Fire. Yeah. Fire. One of the best performers ever. Yeah. His energy was crazy. And then they put Enrique on who can't sing. Like he's, you know, you just just listen to his CDs or something. He was terrible. Put everybody to sleep. I mean, and you know, they had the set changes in between all of them. So, you had to wait like 20 minutes. So, now we're juiced up, man. Pitbull was just on fire, man. And then you wait 20 minutes and then Enrique comes on and he's like Prozac, right? I mean, he's just like killed everybody. And we're all sitting there the whole stadium. It was right here at whatever it was called back then, FX Arena, whatever. And then, you know, you're waiting 20 and then Ricky Martin came and Ricky Martin's also fire. He's like, you know, like a really sick performer energy, you know, and I just wish that like if they went from right from Pitbull to Ricky, like it would have been the best night ever. And and Ricky just killed us. Yeah, we like he walks around with his pretty face and the girls go crazy, but like the guy can't sing. He's like whining like he's like a It was horrible. But Pitull is something else. So a lot of people watching this, you know, they have dreams, ideas, and plans, but you know, they're waiting for permission. They're waiting for the right time. You know what's the price of waiting? And what would Chef Teache tell the person sitting on the fence right now? Well, what I would say is the as crazy as it sounds, the the magic normally happens outside of the comfort zone, right? and you know, you know, working a 9 to5 or you know, like whatever it is that you know, keeps you comfort comfortable and you're you're kind of like afraid to step outside of that. Being uncomfortable sometimes is where the magic happens. And if you don't shoot your shot, you're 100% going to miss the shot. 100%. So worst case scenario, you you you you take your shot, doesn't work out, like whatever case it be, you go back to the drawing board. If you don't at least take your shot, you're going to be, you know, 20 years from now talking about should have, could have, would have, right? So, I say take the shot. Teach, this was a real conversation. I'm freaking hungry. I'm definitely going to House of M. We're bringing the House of Mac to to the office. I got you in [snorts] two weeks. Um, this was a real conversation. What I take away from this is that being an entrepreneur isn't about getting rejected. It's about believing in yourself when nobody else does. It's about surviving the setbacks. It's about building something that's yours. Thank you for joining me. It was a real pleasure. I'm Alex Schwarz. This is Unbankable. And see you next time.