Unbankable with Alex Shvarts

Welcome to Unbankable, the podcast for entrepreneurs who won't take no for an answer. I'm Alex Schwarz, and today we're talking about legal protection. Not just any legal advice, but the kind of aggressive representation that keeps your business alive when everything is on the line. Because here's the truth. You can build a perfect business, but if you're not legally protected, one lawsuit can destroy everything overnight. Let's dive in. Today I'm joined by Chris Robert Tinton, managing partner of Tinton Law Firm, also known as the legal bodyguard. This guy is big. I mean, his suit is about to is about to fall apart. Chris specializes in business law, contracts, corporate matters, real estate, litigation, basically everything that keeps entrepreneurs up at night. What makes Chris different? He doesn't just practice law. He fights for business owners who need aggressive, practical, legal solution. And here's why this matters to our unbankable audience. When banks say no to funding, you need a lawyer that says yes to protecting what you're building. Chris is here to share how entrepreneurs can legally bulletproof their business without breaking the bank. Chris, welcome. Welcome. Yes. Thank you. You know, I got to tell you something. You know who Eric Estrada was? Yes, of course. Man, you look like Eric Estrada. Anybody ever tell you that? No, but he's great. Yeah, you have a great motorcycle like he did. Like Chips. It was a really good show on television, right? My team was like, "Who the hell was Eric Estrada? Who the hell was Chips?" You know, it's all right. They'll Google it out later. Anyway, thank you for joining me. It's amazing. You are You look like a bodyguard in the suit, though. You know, I love boxing. I do your box. Yep. Wow. Okay. I'm going to take it easy on you then, please. I come in peace. I come in peace. I just want you to know. All right. So, let let's dive in. So, Chris, you call yourself the legal bodyguard. What's the legal mistake you see business owners make and how much does it typically cost them when it goes wrong? This is a big deal. Well, I don't call myself the legal bodyguard. One of my clients baptized me the legal bodyguard. Oh, wow. So, it came from him saying, "Wow, you helped me with this problem. Now you're my legal bodyguard." And that's how it all started. Well, I'm going to tell you something. I have nicknames for people I like a lot. I have I really do come up with nicknames. And you know, I have a lot of nicknames. I work with a lot of law firms, big and small, because you know, not everybody's great at everything, but some people are perfect at a specific expertise in law, right? And I think that yes, I think I'm just going to call you the bodyguard, you know, when when we're going to call you. I'm just, hey, call the And it happens to be you're in the same building with us, right? So, yeah. Well, you can't get on my floor. It requires a special security, right? So, we keep the lawyers out. Okay. [laughter] All right. So, to the problem. Yes, tell me. So the thing is most businesses they who do you partner up with? With a friend, right? So people you trust. So what do they do? The best mistake they do is like they don't have the right agreements. They don't have the right contracts, operating agreements, service contracts, whatever it is. So they operate on friendship and they operate on trust. Now we know what happens with that, right? So either you make a lot of money or you make no money and that's when pressure begins to crack on those bad deals, right? So if you make a lot of money, people get greedy. They want more money than the other. If you make no money, then people want to get out of the business. You don't know what's happening, how you get out of the business. So get the right contracts, get the right writing. I think that that's one of the most important messages for the entrepreneurs and business owners we work with, right? Because besides getting the right funding and capital to, you know, grow, expand your business, one of the things is to to do is to make sure your ducks are lined up, everything is is is in place, right? You know, you're going to if you're a restaurant, you're going to buy plates and you're going to buy forks and knives. You need a good you need a good lawyer to make sure that your lease is well written so you're protected from your landlord. You need to make sure that if you do have a partner, it spells out the marriage, right? What's everybody doing? Not only in a good case when you got to split the profits, but what happens if things go sour? How do you end that marriage or partnership if it doesn't work? That's what I do. I do business divorce, which is exactly that, right? It's I don't do divorce. I don't do family law, but I do business divorce. Meaning when people when a business divorce can be much as brutal as a family divorce because it's a all that happens is now two people no longer get along right it's emotions it's irrational right and people react in different ways and it can actually destroy the business for both people right you've seen that and sometimes they don't have a realistic outcome on how to get out of the business cuz maybe the business doesn't work for you anymore maybe you don't have the time to have that business anymore and you just want to get out. So, let's get out of the business in an organized way. Let's have the right contracts who delineate what is going to happen and how you can get out. Very, very well. All right, let's get specific. A business owner calls you panicking. They're being sued by a former partner. They're like, "Hey, my bodyguard, walk us through what should happen in the first 48 hours if they're not or if they are properly protected versus if they're not." Well, the first thing we need to do is not panic. So, let's use the time. Look at the deadlines. If you're being sued, there is a deadline. If you just got a demand letter, there's also a deadline. Don't wait until the last day to go see your attorney because that's what happens, right? They come, they call me and say, "Hey, tomorrow I need to reply." No, it's not going to happen. So, take your time. As soon as you get that letter or the demand, come to see your attorney. So, if you are protected, the good thing is that you're going to have those contracts in place that will tell me how to draft a letter to reply to that demand letter. Right now, we have all the agreements. We'll have to go look for evidence. It's right there. Now, if you're not protected, what happens? How is the relationship governed? So, we have to look at text messages, emails, conversations that you may have had. So, it becomes a much more stressful to create a good response, right? when you're not protected and you don't have the right agreements than when you have the right contracts. Okay, let me ask you this. I'm having a fight with a partner and I've got text messages. Should I save those text messages or delete them? You shouldn't delete anything? Nothing. I always say that. Don't delete stuff. WhatsApp. Try to archive the messages because I had a case where a client his WhatsApp was like cancelled because of whatever he did. He couldn't get the messages from from the history. archive messages at least like once a month. Oh, that's interesting. And you can to the computer. But it can also work against you, right? He can work against you. So, don't put anything writing. You shouldn't be putting in writing. Yeah, that's that's a very good point. Very smart. No wonder you're the bodyguard. Okay. [laughter] So, you work with entrepreneurs that traditional law firms often won't touch, right? How do you approach legal protection differently from businesses, for example, that banks consider unbankable? So why are we here? Why is our industry here? You know, banks say no, right? They want somebody with great credit, profits, all you know, it it's very hard for your clients and our clients to go to a bank, similar demographic, similar landscape. So how do you approach these, you know, new entrepreneurs, smaller business, and I know you have big clients as well. What can you do for them? And I think it's great to work with a smaller firm because you get more attention. You get more attention to detail because you know big law firms they charge a lot. They have a lot of clients. Um so so tell me what is your approach? How how do you how do you approach the legal protection for these type of clients? Well, I I don't personally believe in the unbankable. I believe the business is not presented correctly to the lenders. So maybe you're not going to the right lender or you're not presenting yourself correctly the business to the lender so the lender can understand what you're doing. I have many clients. You just like destroyed every podcast I've been for like 3 months. Let me explain why. I mean you're not the bodyguard anymore like you know you're like the enemy. I mean you're on the other No, I'm just joking. What it means is that maybe you're not bankable for that big institution. You're bankable for the rest of the lenders which are willing to do business with you. Sure. Lenders are in the business of lending money. Y not telling you no because if they if you get a no, you get no money and there's no money to be made by the lender. So let's organize the business correctly, have a business plan, org chart, which seems simple, but some people don't even have an org chart, uh forecasts, financial documents, a whole package that will show the lender, if it's a bank, big bank or smaller bank, that you know what you're doing. you made a lot of sense. So, we've uh processed over I think over 350,000 uh business applications for funding here at Funkite. And one of the things I see which is a a bad pattern is I see people that are great at something, could be a fantastic chef, makes great food, but he really doesn't know how to run a business. He doesn't know how to put things together, financials, accounting, bookkeeping, contracts, any of that. And that's okay, guys. It's okay if you don't. That's why you need and there's so many resources. You've got attorneys. You've got so many resources online that you don't have to have full-time people doing these things for you today. Before years, you had to, but you need to take advantage of it. And one of the things you said, which is important, is the presentation of your business, telling the story of what is going on in a way that people can easily understand. And you're making a lot of sense. I like you bodyguard. The best example is doctors. Doctors are amazing at creating income, taking care of the patients, but in their own clinics, they don't know what they are doing with the business and how to expand the business and market the business. So, let's take let's use the professionals. So, are are you like uh the bodyguard to Gloria Estafon like Kevin Cosner was to Whitney Houston or I do that for my clients. Yeah. Okay. All right. [laughter] just it's really cool you know like a lot of attorneys I work with today they forget that you know when we we talk to a lawyer a lawyer and a doctor are people of authority and and we have to trust them right and a lot of uh professionals and it's not just lawyers forget that they act have to dress prof I even look I even put on a shirt for you today I knew you were coming right um and I think it's important because you know and this is to you know the people that are listening um perception is reality how you look, how you speak, what you say, how you project yourself, and what you're selling has to be all on point, right? So, I mean, if you're a lawyer and you came in here in, you know, I don't know, swimming trunks, speedos, right? I'm just put I just had a vision of you, but that goes with presentation. You see, I may know what I'm talking about, but the presentation is not there. The same as with the business that is unbankable. The business may be great but they are not presenting that greatness to the lenders. You know what I like about you and a lot of a lot of lawyers today don't do that is you you have a very good way of breaking and explaining the important things into in ways that are easy to understand. I think that's important when choosing a lawyer or any professional. They have to speak easy English that me as a client can understand. Right. All right. I hear contract disputes all the time in business. Right. What is proper contract protection actually looks like and give us a real scenario where it saved your client. All right. So, I had a client buying a gas station. He was buying the business and the real estate. Okay. So, during the due diligence process, we see that the land had contamination, which is pretty normal in gas stations from petroleum. Y. So, because we drafted the contract properly, he was able to choose whether to continue with the deal or get out. So, when you don't have the right contract, you're pressured into going into a bad deal. When you have the right agreement, you can choose, hey, what's better? Do I really want to continue? So, my client decided to continue with the uh buying the the gas station. Then, we had a problem with the lenders because the lenders didn't want a loan, didn't want to give a loan with the contamination. We went through the environmental. So, we did a study. I helped them do a study on how much it would be to remediate that. It was around 750. So, we offered the lender, which they didn't want to close. I said, "We'll give you a million dollars from the money that you're going to give us. You're going to keep it on escrow until we close just in case if they default on the loan. You'll have more than enough money to remediate it and sell the asset, right?" And that was the solution of saying, "Okay, so now we can close." And the lender was happy, my client was happy. So that's we've uh we've provided funding to quite a few a lot of gas stations around the country. It's u um it's still uh and it's it's interesting because it's one of those businesses that um a lot of people grow, you know, they they have a gas station, they want to put a convenience store or a coffee shop on it. A lot of opportunity in that space. All right, let's talk about business formation LLC corp partnership. [snorts] How should a small business owner decide and what are the legal landmines that they need to avoid? So what are you doing with the business? How many partners will you have? What is the future? Like are you going to do an IPO? Are you going to bring investors in? So more than thinking what structures are there is what do I need for my business? So if you have an LLC, type S means that you're going to have US residents. You're going to have small percentage of members, not so many investors coming from the outside, private people that you know. Now, if you're thinking on an APO, much bigger, bringing public investors, then you're going to have to go with the corporation. So more than we choosing the structure, who chooses the structure is what we're doing with the business. Very good. If you're enjoying and getting a value from this conversation, hit the subscribe button or tell me about Mr. Illegal Bodyguard. We're bringing you more industry experts who understand what it takes and what it means to be unbankable and how to overcome that. All right. Tell me something. You ever fire clients? Unfortunately, sometimes you have to. Why? Because they are doing unethical things. Okay. And then the Florida Bar will come after me if I don't do that. So sometimes you're forced to fire a client, right? And um people are afraid of lawyers. They shouldn't be. They should be a good friend to I'll tell you why. Because the the perception is, "Oh, am I going to go to this lawyer? He's going to charge me so much money. He's wearing this, you know, Brunell Coochinelli suit and, you know, he's going to be expensive." And that's one of the hesitations small business owners have to go um hire a lawyer. By the way, I believe that if somebody's really a professional, they deserve to get paid. And they because if they're going to protect your business, your assets, and and your vision, that peace of mind costs money, right? You want somebody good, and good people aren't cheap. Um but how do you overcome that? Like you have a client that's starting out comes to you and you say, you know, you can help them. So, how do you sell that? You might be more expensive than somebody else. Help help my my entrepreneurs here understand that how you do it. The biggest thing is cheap is expensive. So, you're going to save today and it's going to cost you so much money later. So, don't choose the attorney based on how much it's going to charge you. I have events very often like once a month and one of these brokers came to talk to me and she said, "How much would you charge me to review a 45 pages uh purchase agreement?" I was like, "All right, I'll charge you by the page, depending on how many pages, and I'll give you a number." She says me, "This guy is charging me $650." $650. 42 pages. 42 pages. 45 pages. That's like $10 a page. And the client has to be translated into Spanish and I have to explain in Spanish to the client. I was like, imagine the level of protection that you're getting for that kind of money. That's impossible. But I said, look, if you are after just the number on how much is it going to be, you can stick to them and see what happens. But the best advice is don't choose an attorney based on money. Don't choose an attorney based on the firm size. Sometimes you go to the biggest firms. No problem with the big biggest firms. I love them. But you think you're getting the senior partner to look at your documents. And unless you're a huge developer, you're going to get one of those associates that are under the senior partner. And maybe the senior partner doesn't even know your name. Of course. Yeah. Which I get it. I understand. It's a structure and they are with big clients. So you can go to a smaller firm. I know your name. I know how your business is running and I take good care of you. Yeah. And you're going to pick up the phone. So how much how should a small business budget for legal protection? Like what you know because there's ongoing stuff. It I I don't I don't agree with people who say, "Okay, I I got my business started. I believe that people who are running a business should regularly check in with their lawyer and just say, "Hey, you know, I'm I'm growing. I'm expanding or this is happening or that is happening. Um, any quick advice? What should I be?" Look, I think constant communications with lawyers are important. It's not just, oh, I did my corporation or LLC a mñana, right? Um, no, [clears throat] my biggest clients who stay in touch with me like weekly and we have an update on what's going on, what's working, what is not working. So, think of it as like a marketing budget. You have a marketing budget, right? Yeah. So, when you start a business, you're going to be spending more money on the attorney and the marketing than if the business has been standing for years. So, I would say from 2 to 5% of the gross revenue depending on the stage of the business. You're getting started, you're going to be closer to the 5%. You've been in business four years, you're going to be closer to 2%. You're doing an expansion, you're going to go back to being closer to the 5%. So, depending on the level of risk, depending on the growth, that's how much money is going to be. Now, you have an advantage cuz you're bilingual, right? You you speak at least two languages that I know of. Um let's talk about people who come to this country that are starting or operating a business that you know a lot of people that do come here from certain countries they don't trust the law they don't trust lawyers they're very hesitant do you find that you have an advantage because you are especially I guess in South Florida market it's important to be bilingual that's very true um you know I'm from New York we also had we also had to be bilingual you had to know hand signshu Right. And you have to know uh words, right? But here it's important to be bilingual, right? It is. It is. And a lot of like the city of Miami is fully bilingual. So if you need to do something with the city of Miami, you better speak Spanish cuz Now I'm a very polite person. Yeah. And I get into an Uber and the Uber drivers, a lot of them are Spanish and they start talking to me in Spanish. Now I don't interrupt people. I mean, here I have to cuz we're, you know, we're we're in a time constraint, but I don't interrupt people. So, you know, they're telling me their entire story, whatever they want to tell me for the day. And, you know, I'm shaking my head [laughter] and I'm going like this. And then when I know that they're done, I'm like, "No, espanol." And they're very upset at me cuz now they realize that they just been telling me something that I don't understand. We shouldn't assume. We shouldn't assume. We shouldn't assume. And the reason I'm saying this story is because business owners shouldn't assume that [ __ ] won't happen. Problems can happen. Can and will. Unless you plan, you're planning for failure. So would you do a building and then do the floor plans? So you build a building 45 stories, no floor plans, and then you go when you finished, oh, let me do the floor plans now. Cuz that's what people think. It's like first I'm going to get successful, I make some money, then I go see the attorney. No, big mistake. So, what trends have you been seeing for small business that have changed where the business laws changing lately? Whether in favor of small business or against small business like what are important trends you're seeing? Well, what I see in contracts lately that the dispute resolution is going towards arbitration and mediation. We want to stay outside of court. Why? We don't know how much it's going to be. People tell me, "So, I need to sue this guy. How much is it going to be?" We don't know. It could be 20K. It could be $500,000. So, the idea of the new contracts is that they want to keep it outside of the courts, go to arbitration and mediation, but not only for the cost. Let's say you have a very But not only that, the arbitrator will be a specialist on the subject of the contract. So, let's say you have a very sophisticated subject. you go into a jury that has no idea. No idea. Oh, I I believe in in um dispute resolution through arbitration and mediation. I think it's faster. It's much more cost effective. A lot of people don't know about it. And it's it's also quicker. [snorts] You're going to get much more professional, too. Yeah. And you're going to get in front of arbitrators that really understand what's going on. You're right. They're going to read a contract. there. They're going to understand what you're most likely what you're doing as opposed to 12 jurors who might decide you're wearing a suit, I'm not like this guy or you're better looking than me, so they're going to like you more. It's it's not the best place to be sometimes, right? Court is with all due respect is more going more going like a casino cuz you don't know how you're getting out, right? Even if you think you're winning, you may not win, right? Right? So arbitration is so much better because you get that specialist that is going to sit there, read the contract, know what they are talking about and make the best decision. So that's the new trend. The new trend is going through ADR. If someone's going out to shop for a lawyer, they want to find the lawyer. What what questions should they be asking? Well, first of all, you need to like the person because you need to find that feedback that that you engage with that person. and then if they have done what you're looking for before. So if you have an issue that the attorney has never seen that issue before, maybe it's not the best fit. So go to an attorney that is familiar with solving the issue that you have. And I didn't talk about cost. Cost is going to be the cost. You know, um you should know what a good lawyer in in that particular industry or specialty charges, right? So if you're going to someone, they're charging too little, that's a problem. or if they're charging too much, it's a problem. But you you could Google and find out what what it should cost, right? When should I fire my lawyer? When should a business That's a good question. You know, I had a marketing guy the other day that does work for us. I actually fired him right on the podcast. Fired him. That was it. I was done. No, but so when should one say, you know what, this lawyer is no longer a good fit for me? Well, if you see that the attorney is not coming prepared to meetings with you and he doesn't remember your case and he hasn't read the contracts or documents that you presented as evidence before the meetings, doesn't have strategies on how to resolve the problem or is just looking to pick a fight. I have now a deal where I'm I'm working with another attorney and this attorney, they just want to pick a fight. They don't want to fix the problem and have those two parties get to the best deal possible. This guy just wants to fight. So if you have an attorney just does that guy know that you go boxing every day? Like does he have any idea? We should get we should get together and discuss it in person. Yeah. [laughter] Like hey let's go for a cup of coffee right at the boxing gym. I I have said that I have said that in the past. Do you [snorts] like to fight? No. I mean I do it at the gym but it's a good way of uh keeping your mind sharp. No no but I mean if you had to you can go to court and fight. No I'm not a litigator. I have a litigator that specifies on that for years and years and years. So I believe in mediation, arbitration, negotiation. I believe in that resolution of the issues before going to court. Now if you need to go to court, we we'll bring the big guns and take you to court. As I get older, I have less energy to fight and I try to find ways to find an amicable solution when you have a disagreement or two parties can't see eye to eye. And sometimes it's not easy. And you know, you as business owners out there, you're going to find times where, man, you just can't get through to someone. But don't lose hope because sometimes people just need a break. They need a minute to think and see what's going on and, you know, find a way. So, let me ask you this. How many of your clients have come to you and said, you know, my bodyguard, man, I can't find money. I need money. Like, I'm trying to grow my business. Who do I turn to? Right. I have one right now that we're going to talk about it. I mean, it happens, right? It happens. It happens. Funding is the energy of the business if you don't have the funding. And I always say to people that the first two places cuz everybody can go to friends and family, but that's worse than banks. Like owing your brother money is probably way worse than owing the bank. Very true. But, you know, I think a good place for people, I always say that if you're not sure or funkite is not a fit for you, go to your lawyer, go to your account and say, "Hey, you know, um, and maybe you don't even need money." So, asking your accountant or attorney, maybe it's not the right time, maybe you're not looking at things clearly, but if you have an attorney accountant, why not go to them and say, "Hey, you know what? I'm thinking I I need expansion or I have a problem. What's my best way to get funding? How do I go around this?" I agree. And and I also believe about a mix of funding like maybe you want to have a partner, maybe you want to bring some money from from a lender. So funding doesn't only mean I'm just getting a loan. It could be a mix of funding. Really good stuff. My thing is fixing problems. I don't believe in the no. I believe there's always a way of finding a solution to a problem. You don't have money, you need funding. Let's find a way how to get money. You're fighting with a partner. You can't stand that partner anymore. Let's find a way, an amicable way to resolve the issue. But you have to be realistic. If your income is not great, you're not going to get $100 million loan, right? If you have a weak position, you're not going to win the argument against your partner. So, realistic outcomes, but there's always a way to find a solution. You know what I find? I find that good lawyers who want to come up, not the ones that want to just keep fighting and going to fighting and building clients, but a good lawyer is a good psychologist. Possibly. They are. I have very good legal team. I mean, and I we work with some of the biggest law firms in the country and some specialized smaller ones, but a lot of our our attorneys, they know that I'm very passionate and emotional. And the good ones, they they know how to psycho psycho chill me. Psycho chill. Is that a term? That's my new deescalate. Deescalate. Psycho chill me. And because you know, things happen. you're very emotional because like and people will you know be emotional but they they know how to psycho chill me in I like that term psycho chill right um they know how to psycho chill me into a way where I can now start to clearly see how we're going to you know handle the situation so I think it is important uh look you know a lawyer is also a consiliary it's a very trusted person and you have to have a trusted person to talk to cuz you know you you can share pretty much anything with your lawyer. Even, you know, if you, God forbid, you did something stupid or bad, you know what I mean? You know, you turned on a red signal. I mean, who you going to tell? Yeah, man. I blew the red light, right? You're going to tell your lawyer, right? You know, you better you better tell him, right? Because the worst lie to your attorney. The worst thing you could do is lie to your attorney because then he's going to when the the truth comes out anyway and the truth always comes out I believe you know and then when they have the video of you turning on the red light your attorney is going to look bad and attorneys if [snorts] they know that you did something bad at least from my experience or you know at least they know how to deal with it surprised you mitigate the exposure by bringing it early enough right so if you Don't tell me that you have text messages saying things you shouldn't be saying. How am I going to protect you from that? So if I find out later cuz they are producing the text messages when you told me that there were no no text messages. Yeah, that look credible. Your lawyer has to always look credible. [snorts] Sometimes strength also comes from weakness. By knowing the problems or what you did or what you said creates strength for the attorney because he already knows where the the problems are and how to work around them. Um yeah, this is really really good stuff. Chris, if someone wants to learn more about business legal protection or needs to connect with you direct directly, what's the best way to reach out? The best way, the most organized way is write to my WhatsApp. Send me a message 30520910009.

You send me a message there. If I'm busy, I will reply to you later. Wow. Cuz I'm in meetings. But I like WhatsApp. I hope you have more than one number, man. I hope you have like I I like that number because the history is there. Whatever I didn't reply is right there. Obviously, that's not my personal number, but I get back to I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I have I have I've now have two numbers. one for more for work and because it it gets to be a little overwhelming, right? Some people don't know limits. So being a lawyer is tough, right? It's very a lot of pressure. It is just like you're not you're an entrepreneur, having your own law practice, you're an entrepreneur. You're just an entrepreneur with a diploma and a degree and a license on the wall, but you're still an entrepreneur. And how do you balance your life from the craziness of being a lawyer? probably have crazy clients, entrepreneurs, they're very demanding, right? I need an answer now. Blah blah blah blah blah. How do you balance your life? Because you you appear very focused, calm, balanced. Well, balancing is the biggest thing with attorneys. Attorneys and doctors have like the worst life work balance and is known by the Florida Bar. When we were in school, they bring experts to talk about this. There's a lot of subst sub substance of use by attorneys and doctors because who do you get high on? The boxing. The boxing. Good for you. I love that. I just go there. I put the phone away. Forget everything for one hour. It's just for me. Yeah. So, you stay focused there. But, um, you have to find that balance. I mean, you're a successful entrepreneur as well. You know, I just work 12 hours a day. I do work I on average I do 12 hours a day but I still find time to to exercise what I like right or something from my mind like I do listen to vinyl records and music that helps me clear my mind it's probably the first thing I do when I get in the office as I start to work but yeah no balance is critical for all type of uh it's it's critical for people in general but also for entrepreneurs because you you know we can get really caught up in what we do and you love law, right? You love if you get burnt out, then the output diminishes. So, it's like a machine. You can't just push them push the machine with no limits. You need to know what you're doing. Who's your favorite client? What what is a profile of a favorite client? A good client. What's a good client? You know, the the bigger the client, the more sophisticated the client, the less of a headache, believe it or not, because they understand what's going on. So, not because I make the most money with the bigger client, but because the sophisticated client understands that what you're doing is right for them. So, they ask less questions. They don't have a problem with understanding what you're trying to explain. So, the more sophisticated, the better. I don't have a favorite industry. To me, I don't discriminate. I welcome all the clients. But you know what? Everyone can become a sophisticated client. That is very true. Especially today with all of the information that is available. Yeah. But you know, you just become sophisticated by actually having a lawyer, asking questions, having the lawyer grow with you. You grow with the lawyer and you have the, you know, I know people have lawyers for 30, 40 years. Same lawyer. I have a lawyer that's been representing me since 1992. Unfortunately, he's a lot older. Um, and I just called him to wish him. He just turned 78 years old recently. He was a partner in a major law firm in New York and now he's, you know, um but yeah, people have lawyers for a lifetime. It's and it's important. It's great if you can have one like that for a lifetime and and grow with all of that. You know, you talk about sophistication over time and that's very true. I have if you look at the messages from 5 years ago from some of my clients and you look at the messages they send me now, right? the difference in the questions and what's going on. They've been learning through the the time they have been with me so much that I could have them as consultants too, you know. Yeah, sure. No, because they have life experiences and lawyers also learn off their clients. Yep. Right. Yep. This has been swell, man. Thank you so much. You need any legal advice from me or I just need some money from my clients. That's all. That's it. That's it. Thank you so much for coming. This is Thank you.