Unbankable with Alex Shvarts

Welcome to Unbankable, a podcast for entrepreneurs that see no barriers, that want a strong, consistent future. I'm Alex Schwarz, founder and CEO of Fundite. And for the past 10 years, I've worked with so many small business owners and have seen and experienced the mistakes they made. I want to empower you, show you some shortcuts, bring on successful guests, and hopefully give you a better blueprint to get to where you want to get to. Today I've got an amazing um person from the business funding world, someone I respect, someone I look up to, and I hope that he's going to share some really really good insight with us. You know, it's it's great to have a competitor that you're friends with. That's what makes any business do well. Anyway, I'd like to introduce Bill Gallagher, the president of CFG Merchant. and you've provided funding, I think over $2.5 billion now to small businesses. And that's right, Alex. Um, thank you very much for having me. It's uh it's an honor and a privilege to be part of uh this podcast. Uh I hope that you know some of the topics that we're going to cover uh are valuable for businesses of of of all size. Uh I'm excited to be in the uh the early stages of of this podcast. I can I can feel uh the uh the shackles coming off the success of it of it. Um and and yes um our company has provided uh 2.3 billion in working capital to small and mediumsiz businesses in in all 50 states over the past uh 15 years. I'm sure you'll get to 2.5 billion uh exact overnight. I was going to say by the end of February I think we might be there. Thank you. Thank you. Let's get started. Let's talk about Unbankable. I'm excited. And so the first thing I'm going to do is before we get into your story, I I have a question. What's a mistake that you made when you started in business that you laugh about now? It was a serious mistake then, but now you you laugh about that mistake. semilaffable, but um I think this is and I think this this will um be very relatable in some of the topics that we're going to talk about today for folks who are starting a business, trying to run a business, trying to wear multiple hats, um and trying to grow and expand their business. Uh and that was um we got away from uh managing our concentration risks. We had too many um too many apples in one cart uh with with one customer and when that customer had a um had a bit of a stumbling block uh it it became an issue for our business. Uh and that taught taught us a lot about uh diversification, about um expanding your client and and customer base and and really taking the time to prospect new quality partnerships uh as opposed to because it is easy to rely on a customer who is performing paying you over a period of time. Uh there's a comfort level. Uh, and I think, you know, one of the things we're probably going to talk about today is is forcing yourself to sometimes get out of that comfort zone. Yeah, it's a very good, very good point. Comfort zone, right? So, let's talk about the comfort zone for a minute, right? Wall Street, big bucks, institutions, right? Institutional money. Yep. Different approach, right? And then you walked So, you walked all away from that, right? I mean, it's a a lot of cushion there and you bet on small business. I mean that's risky, right? Betting on small business is banks don't do it. We know banks don't do it. They don't want to bet on small business. So So tell me that that mindset. What happened at that moment when you said, "You know what? I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go and bet on small business." Uh terrified actually. Um you still terrified? Uh no, no, we feel good now. We feel good now thankfully. Um, so not only did we bet on small business, but I think we did what a lot of entrepreneurs do, uh, we bet on ourselves. You know, we felt confident in the skill set. And when I say terrified, I'm I'm only, you know, half kidding. It's it's very scary to, um, to launch a new endeavor where there is a tremendous amount of unknown. you know, my partners and I worked without a paycheck for, you know, pretty significant period of time, which, you know, can become uncomfortable. Um, but like anything, it's uh and this is an adage that we uh, you know, that we use in in the company all the time. Um, you know, how do you eat eat an elephant? One bite at a time. And um, you know, we steadily grew the business. Uh and actually a little bit of a little bit of history, you know, we started out as a factoring platform uh in 2010 on the heels of the financial crisis. Um and in 2014 2015, we pivoted to providing, you know, the product that that that that you and I evolved. Yeah. Product evolved what it is today. Right. That's exactly right. ju just and there's so much I I want to I I want to be able to share but um you know you said it was scary. You were terrified, right? But again like leaving Wall Street was safe. Yes. It really is safe. You know if you're long time on Wall Street and you've got, you know, a good reputation, it's pretty safe, right? As entrepreneurs, we're still entrepreneurs. That's right. Right. We're we're just a uh full-time employee entrepreneurs and we'll get into that also. Yeah. I mean, but but it it's so risky to make that move. And I'm going to say this, it's it's terrifying. You said I also believe that you cannot have success without failure. Okay. So, some people are just lucky, man. They do the first thing and you know, you see these AI billionaires today overnight they're billionaires and that's not most people, right? That's very few fortunate, you know, God DNA kids. I don't know how I don't know. I wasn't born like that. So, I've had failures in life. Yeah. I I know. And I think that a combination of those failures, you know, put me where I am today. So, I'm just trying to get into the mindset and help business owners understand that it's okay to take risk. It's okay to have failures, right? I I've had them, right? what was the deciding factor for you to take that risk to take that leap at that moment? So, uh you hit on a very good point there. Um business is about experimenting. Uh and you learn a lot more from some of your shortcomings and your failures than you do the the the successes. And you know, my partners and I when we started the business in in 2010, we all could have gone back to Wall Street Jobs at another shop. The key deciding factor for all of us was to control our own destiny. Um, and to also to build something that we could be very proud of that had social utility in providing working capital to small and medium-sized businesses who don't have access to it in other places. and to call something our own, the pride that comes with that. So, the scariness goes away when you start to to really uh dig into, you know, what's needed to start a business and then grow a business. Um, and you really now pivot to execution, which I'm sure we'll talk about because that's a key to, you know, every every successful business. It's about can you put the pieces in place and can you execute. Let's talk about something you just said because you know you're going back to 2010, right? That's right. Andrew [ __ ] partner since 2010. Correct. Our CEO. So, so let's think about this for a minute. Most marriages today don't last 15 years. Right. And how have you been able to keep your partnership strong for so many years? How do you find the balance? And look, I've accepted that in order to keep a partnership strong, just like a marriage, you have to be able to give in. That's right. The other one can be right. It's not always my way. Um, and so for you, how do you find the balance to keep the partnership strong for so many years and allow it to flourish? Because the worst thing in business is if you have a partner and it's the wrong partnership, everything falls apart, right? Just completely. What's the secret sauce that you've had to keep that partnership so strong? I think you just touched on on a major piece. It's I think it's it's it has to be the guiding factor has to be constant mutual respect and professionalism even even at times when and and and this happens in all levels of business, right? There are um there are frustrations, there are differences of opinion. Um I think Andy and I do a very good job of having complimentary skill sets. Um he leads our organization with an intellectual feeling and an institutional culture that uh that we both believe in and um you know like you said we've been able to make it work you know because of I think the respect that we have for each other. That's good to hear. Yeah. That's good to hear. And so if if small piece of advice you you would say to a business owner who has a partner and you know there's challenging times there's disagreements I always say is take a breath back and have a little patience right take a breath when you disagree agree to disagree take a step back because you've made it so far and maybe it's worth fighting for. That's exactly right and I've been very fortunate. You know Andy is not a yeller. He's a very cerebral Are you a yeller leader? I I can I can get a little I can get a little I've never seen you yell, Bill. I mean, in all these things, this is where the yin and yang comes comes in a comes in a little bit. Um, but you you know, he makes it clear where, you know, where we're going and uh and I think it's also important that partners in business share the same goals and ambitions. Um, and that those are communicated with each other on a regular basis. Where are we going? How do we want to get there? and are we aligned in in exactly, you know, where we want to go um and what we want to do. You know, I I've I've seen this a lot and I think there also needs to be some boundaries. So partners in business doesn't necessarily mean partners in life. That's right. I've seen plenty of partners in business that are there from, you know, 7:00 in the morning till 8:00 at night and then they have separate lives. That's right. And that's actually not a bad thing. keeping that balance. You need to just like you need to have a life outside of your marriage. That's what work is about. Now, I work with my wife and but hardly see her in the office, right? But, you know, the same way in business, it doesn't mean that just because your partner's in business that you need to go out every night to get a lot of young people do that anyway. That's how they start a business and sometimes that could cause a a problem. Yeah. Um so, you you need to have some boundaries and some balance. So, let's think about this. You've worked with billiondoll portfolios, right? And now you're working with, you know, pizza shops, small businesses, right? What is the difference in the risk? Like if you can pinpoint why those fails and these fail, is there any uh um synergy in the failure? Meaning similar reasons why big people fail and small people fail? I think a lot of the topics that we're going to talk about today are relatable whether you are a multi-billion dollar company or whether you're doing or whether you're someone who does you know 3 million a year in sales and you know one of the words that I touched on was you know execution right um and um I think all successful organizations regardless of size have to have a customer service mentality a customer first culture within the organization. Um, regardless of the product that you deliver and and we know we deliver a product that's that that that's capital, right? And you have to always have the customer experience uh in mind and I think if if anything um those that are able to to move from 5 million a year in revenue to 25 million to 50 to 100 are those that execute. You know, another saying that we use in our organization all the time is attention to detail. The little things that can trip you up. And I know as as business owners and leaders, we always think about what can keep us up at night, what goes bump. Um the big things, but really the little things matter and and a lot of little things put together make a big thing. Yeah. So I always say that a big problem is just a combination of little problems, right? So if you're tackling little problems, you won't have a big problem, right? So if you're enjoying this conversation with someone who actually moved billions of dollars, please subscribe and definitely hit some comments up. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how we can better engage with such leading CEOs and entrepreneurs and provide more, you know, great feedback. All right, Bill, I want to get into, you know, helping business owners, right? I mean that's really we've combined and separately have have looked at I don't know half a million businesses maybe a million businesses have submitted applications for funding to us so I want to kind of break this down into a few things right and and you I know you've got a lot of exper experience with this so I want to talk about the S plan I call it the S plan the staffing plan right so I say pace your hires Mhm. and accelerate your fires. That's my my my thing, right? And a lot of people have a problem with that, right? They they they don't plan when to hire. They're hesitant in firing, right? They hold on to people too long. I I've made that mistake and so many times. So, so what advice can can you give and together maybe we can have a little discussion about when is the right time to hire? How do you hire? Right? Sometimes you need to make an emergency hire. you know, your business is growing, things are moving fast. I got to and you're hiring the wrong people and then you wind up holding on to the wrong people. Like, I would love nothing more than the people that I hire at Funkai to be here a lifetime. That's right. I'd like them 30 years from now or 20 I don't know if I have 30 years left in me but whenever that day comes when I'm no longer the CEO of I'd like to people to say you know what choosing funkite was the best decision I've made and same way I'd like to say you know this was you know choosing this person was the best decision now there there's something that another thing and I'm going to give you a chance here to give me your perspective but then there's another thing is do we hire experience or do we hire somebody young? And and the difference to me is someone experienced has habits that sometimes are hard to break. That's right. Someone young is very open-minded. So tell me your ass plan. How do you hire? Let's start with this. Yeah. So, so we what has worked for us and we've been very fortunate at Capital Flow Funding and CFG Merchant Solutions to have very little turnover. Um, and I think part of that is that uh personnel, employees, uh, producers, regardless of what side of the business that you're on, when they come into an organization, they can feel the culture. It's it's it's real. It may not be written down somewhere. You may see mission statements, but you can you can feel the way things are. You know, what has worked for us is accelerating both hiring and unfortunately, you know, when we when we need to let go. Uh and we we've taken a mindset that we always like to be, you know, one or two hires ahead of where we need to be. Okay? So that you're not scrambling um when that growth spurt, you know, happens to you're fortunate enough to to to have. And um there are life circumstances. Things happen. People walk away for, you know, various reasons. Um but when it's not a fit, I think you touched on something, you know, really important. I think it's in the best interest of both parties to kind of move, you know, move move on sometimes. But but okay, but I like that idea, you know, be ahead of a a you know, be a few employees ahead of where your growth is. But how does a small business owner, how does a coffee shop has four employees who's and we've see this a lot that you know this hyper growth people grow too fast. They don't have the money to operate the business. But so how does a small business do that? How does a small business owner that we deal with on a daily basis? By the way, when I say small business, I don't mean somebody doing $200,000 in sales. We we deal with so many companies that do $50 million in sales a year that come to us cuz the banks say no. So, how does a small business owner, let's say with 10 employees, plan ahead? What what advice would you give, you know, how do they plan ahead employees because it it's a tough burden on them, right? Yeah, that that's right. and and and and I would say um in our experience, one of one of the shortcomings for a lot of our our smaller business owners and as I mentioned earlier, you know, a lot of them wearing multiple hats um working 16 18 hours a day to build their business is um is a word that you just used which is project. Um, I think I think it's incumbent on any business at any level to sit down and put together your own projections of where you think you're going. Now, projections are a moving target. They are an educated guess. Uh, you hope you exceed them, but I think at least having an idea of what's my basecase scenario and am I behind plan or am I ahead of plan? And I think that can give you the vision to add a resource which is also an expense, right? Not something that you take lightly as a especially as someone, you know, who's working with a smaller type type staff. And I think it also, you know, one of the things we're we're obviously going to talk about is how you capitalize a business. Um, I think that helps you on multiple fronts, which is, you know, and and also one of my themes is going to be is going to be, you know, just being just being organized, right? which which assists in um those you know multiple hats that that you need to wear with you know a little side expense. What's the one expense you hate the most in your business every month? What is that one expense you hate the most? The recurring expenses that are that are just you know that that are just necessary for the business. But you know obviously there's some of them in there that that are just more agitating than others. Yeah. I I tell you the subscriptions, right? We're stuck with software that we just got to pay for. We can't live without and if you get rid of it, you're screwed, right? So, I I think the the monthly recurring subscriptions expenses are the worst. Um the worst for me. All right. So, now let's talk about the fires for a minute, right? When do you decide someone needs to go? How many chances should a business small business owner or an entrepreneur give um an employee? We tend to give um regular reviews to to our folks. Um I think I think you need a management team and then a middle management level uh that gives regular feedback um and also um gives clear expectations as to what is expected of the performance of the individual. You know, you mentioned in the beginning, you know, we're guilty as guilty as as anyone. We tend to, you know, want to try and rehabilitate uh our our people where wherever we can. Um maybe they're just cast in a in a in a role that's not a great fit for their personality or their skill set, but ultimately it it sometimes it does come down to just needing to move on from Do you get I I get sometimes, you know, when you work with people, I get attached, right? Yes. And it's, you know, we're still human at the end of the day. you know, we're not um we're not like Elon Musk who I don't know, he's he's in a different world. I'd love to ask him what his what his hiring and firing feels like, but um when you're attached, and a lot of business owners become attached, right? How do you psychologically, you Bill say, you know what, I've worked with this person so long, I I got to let them go. So, how do you do it? So in I think in in in any decision you make you always have to have the the best interest of the business regardless of how difficult it might be and sometimes you know it it means you know leaving money on the table. There's no amount of dollars that can where you would sacrifice your reputation. Um and I think if you if you always have the best interest of the business at heart and let that be your guide you'll make the right call. and and and I think we've also found that ultimately when it comes to making the decision, the difficult decision to part ways, it's almost mutual. It it it's almost in and not not in every scenario, but in a lot it was time for for for them to move on as well. Interesting. And there's a little bit of a relief. So, I like how you just said that, you know, kind of relief, right? Okay. shakeddown employee. Employee you really need does a great job. You know you're paying a lot. They realize that you need them and they come to you and say, "You know what? I've got a better offer. Somebody's offering me $50,000 more a year than you. You know, I like it here, but you know, I'm looking out. You know, I have whatever it is, right? So, the shakeddown, how do you what do you do with that? I'll tell you what I do afterwards, but what do you do?" Yeah. So I mean that's that's that's that's a different happens all the time and and and it and it's very difficult calculus at at times. There isn't a clear direction. Um you obviously want to keep um high producing personnel regardless. uh but there is also a limit to you know to what the business can absorb as far as a a a cost perspective to again I think a little bit of the uh uh financial modeling even if it's when I say that it doesn't have to be sophisticated right um I think it's it's kind of knowing your business and kind of what what helps it what helps it drive and then I think you know I think you need a management team who has the ability to kind of step in and fill any void that that that that that needs to be filled. So, I tell you what I do. I have found that when someone does this, that most of the time it's time to part ways. Because if they come to you and say, "Look, I need a raise." That's one thing. They come and say, "Look, you know, I'm working hard. I'm delivering. I want I want a raise. I think I'm justified a raise. It's a very different conversation than when someone comes to you and says, "I got a better offer." Because what you did was you went out and you betrayed me. You went out behind my back looking for a better offer only to you didn't just say, "I'm leaving. I got a better offer. Here's my resignation." You're leveraging the better offer against me. You're playing poker with me. Once you if you do that once, if an employee an employee does to you this once, no matter how much you need them, maybe you keep them for a little bit, but you need a replacement. You do not hold on to that person. The right thing to do is they come to you and say, "Look, I really want a raise. I need a raise. I've been here long enough. I deserve a raise." That's an honest conversation. But when someone shows up and said, "I got a better How'd you get a better offer? just landed in your mail. Yeah. You entertained it. You went behind my back and you did. So to me, that person at that moment, no matter how important they are, I can't trust that person anymore because they're not Look, I never say somebody works for me. I I always say they work with me. Yeah. They work with us, right? And at the end of the day, I I'm going to ask you this. Most of the day, are you a boss or are you an employee? Yeah. No, for me, I I I see myself as a colleague and a and a team member as opposed to a a boss. Yeah. You're an employee. We're employees working for I work for everyone that works at Funkite. That's exactly right. That's it. Now, I'm I think I'm I'm the CEO when there's no one around at night and weekends. I I I put in a lot of hours. That's when I'm really, you know, planning and and doing that. But when work is live, you're not the boss employee. You're wearing 35 different hats. That's right. I I think even within our organization, we have a very entrepreneurial and capitalistic model. And there is zero shame u uh from our perspective as a management team in folks wanting to get compensated for their contributions in helping us get to the next level of of growth. Uh it's when it's when folks, you know, feel like um entitled uh or it's not justified uh than it needs to be thought out. And you know what? Um to to the business owners, you should never feel guilty because you're making more money and you've built a successful business. If if somebody can do what you do, let them go do it. You took the risk. You you're you're sweating it out. You're working day and night. And then you know people shouldn't count what's in your pocket or successful you are. If they can do what you do, let them go do it. So don't feel guilty. Success shouldn't bring guilt. But my dad always said that money likes quiet, right? So if you're successful, don't go bragging about it. I I don't think that's a good thing. I I think is, you know, like be humble because man, that success can be gone in a minute. So, be humble and it's it's it's it's a good thing to feel great because you're accomplishing something, but it doesn't mean you need to pound your chest and get in on top of a building and scream, "I made it." You believe me, you haven't made [ __ ] yet. Okay? Means nothing, right? Okay. I'm sorry. Let's let's stick to the the advice to the business. So, we talked about the, you know, the the S plan, the staffing plan, right? Let's talk about the G plan, the growth plan. Yeah. Right. So I see especially in our business people apply for business funding and some people really need the capital to go forward and some people need capital to catch up. Yes. And that's a problem. The catchup capital is a problem. Right. So, let's talk about what advice you think small business and again when I say small business owners I don't mean just people are doing you know $100,000 a year in revenue. I'm talking about people who do 50 million. To us, it's all small business, right? To to America, it's all small business. To the banks, it's all small. Neither can get funding in a bank, right? Um, so what advice and you have a lot of life experiences cuz, you know, you've built a such a great company and I'm sure you've made a lot of mistakes, right, that we can laugh about now. I've done a ton, probably a ton more than you, but um what advice would you give that small business owner? How do you grow? How do you grow so you're not playing catch-up and you grow for the future? Right. So, what what's what advice for growth? It's uh it's a very difficult equation, Alex. Um, it's probably the the single hardest challenge that a that a that a business owner is is going to face because the you know the word growth it automatically feels like success right everybody wants growth in their business but you know one of the things that we talk about is it's not just growth just for growth's sake does that growth come with performance um with uh financial results the financial results is bigger really better. Correct. If you are just growing for growth sake, but you have uh reduced margins um and you're working harder to bring home less for uh you and the other employees. Um is that growth really worth it? And I think um you know growing your business in a balanced way is is hard um because you know how you build it in you know the first two years is is much different than how you build it in the next three and then the next three after that. And one of the things that we're constantly challenging ourselves to do is is think about ourselves differently. Uh differently than when we, you know, were funding uh 5 million uh of paper to small businesses in a month. Uh when we got to 25 million, we absolutely had to think think about ourselves in a different way. And you know, now that we're at 50 million, we have to think about things even different more differently. So, and and I think it's that it's that balancing that growth, but most business owners, entrepreneurs, in order to be one, and not everybody is, but there's a a gene. We we come with this DNA like with one of our genes. And one of the genes is to grow. That's what entrepreneur is all about, right? It's to to do more, to do this. So, I always say this. I I've never been to these coaching seminars because I believe anybody who's charging $3,000 to teach you how to do something. I don't believe those people. I'd rather speak to someone who's not charging me money and ask them the question and I get real answers, right? But but people want to grow. It's just I guess it's in our DNA to do better. A lot of people want more. They want to achieve more. They want to be it's it's all it's all there. So, but how do you bill from everything you've been to? And maybe I should ask this a different way, the bill that was 25 years old, how would that bill look at the bill today? What would the bill when he was 25 years old as far as running businesses say to the bill today? Yeah, I mean I I I think the experiences between, you know, 25 years old and now are are just, you know, in in invaluable. Um, and I think you you need that that journey to be prepared for, you know, when you decide the timing is right to to to go the entrepreneurial route. Uh because at 25, I was working for a large organization and um I had my you know, my responsibilities. Um but I really didn't have the livelihoods of a hundred people um at stake. Sure. It's a lot of pressure at stake. Um and so um you know that difference is um you know is is is is very real. So how do you decide what not to do even though it feels important in any scenario? I think as as a manager or business leader, you need to instill a a sense of urgency that this organization has a place to go and we have a plan to get there, right? It's not just by the seat of our pants. And I think that that and this is where we talk about the financial projections. That's just one part of it. um having a plan, having um your folks be very well aware of that plan um and have everyone be aligned in in how we're how we're getting there. All right, let's get to the most important part. Yeah, here we go. The F plan. Yeah, the funding plan. All right, so first first question. If someone has zero connections, where where do you think they start? I think nowadays um folks are very fortunate that there is a ton of really good information online. Um I think you need to be very careful about about you know kind of what what you listen to. But I think there's there's financial education that that can be had uh at a very low cost or or or free. And I think it would it would behoove any business owner even if they're someone who is you know not necessarily financially adept but they're very good at their craft or the service that they provide uh is to get you know is to get some financial liter literacy. Um and then second is to be very careful about the partners that you choose. Absolutely. So, uh, I think you need a really good financial adviser, um, accountant, um, probably one of one a worthwhile hire, even if it's on a a part-time basis, or or just ask questions, right? I mean, ask questions. You, let's say you're you're trying to get business funding, and we'll talk about that in a second, but you need to know what you're getting yourself into. That's right. Right. I need this much money. What is it going to cost me? How long or when do I have to repay it? How do I repay? And what happens if I can't repay it? Yeah, right. That's right. It's Listen, you know, getting money is the easy part. It's like getting a credit card, right? You get a credit card with a limit, then you go, you charge, right? And then what happens if you can't pay? So, these are important. These are simple questions that you need to ask. It's like crossing the street on a red light with traffic. You know that if you cross the street, you can get hit by a car, right? That's right. So why not ask those questions and and and begin to understand that. All right. So yes, I agree with you. There's Look, when when I was growing up and you were growing up, we didn't have the internet at our disposal. No, that's right. That's right. Like Okay. But we also had a banker that we could walk in and they knew who we were. We deposited checks at the bank physically every week when we got our paychecks, right? There wasn't direct deposit back then, right? I don't want to say how old we are because Yeah. I mean, they still had abacus back then, but but but think about it. We knew our banker. We knew our tellers by name. Everybody knew everybody. You needed some money from the bank. You could walk in and talk to them. We've been, and I keep saying this, that the system has trained us not to talk to banks. There's no one to talk to there. Unless you're late on your credit card payment, then there's definitely people calling you all day, right? And sending you notices. It's all automated. Uh ATMs are automated. is designed, banks are designed for you not to communicate with them when you really need something. That's right. When you need help. That's right. I I think you make a really good point about asking the next question. Right. A and not just settling for um answers um the answer that you get and as as anyone who you know runs a business um you are at the end of the day you are a risk manager regardless of the size. you're managing various risks and one of those risks is capital. Either not having access to enough um or overburdening your business um where you could potentially be um using leverage in in the wrong way. Okay. So then how do you know how how much is enough to ask for? How do you know what to ask for? Yeah. And I I think that circles back to some of the financial projections that we talked about earlier. You know, we see we see a lot of businesses that are um they're very good at what they do. They have a solid roster of clients and customers. They have highquality employees who can who can deliver and perform. Yet, their financial books and records are an absolute just mess mess mess. And and that's okay. That's okay. But they don't realize that's not ex I say that all the time. You're not an accountant. Get somebody. Bring in bring in an expert that you can trust. And they're not expensive. There's so many of them. There's part-time CEOs now, CFOs. Everybody's part-time. You can get the help, but you need it. And that So then, that's right. And that's that's the next topic, which is, you know, what is, you know, one of the biggest mistakes, you know, business owners make when trying to get business funding? I mean, I have my take. I want to hear yours. biggest mistake you see all the time when people submit applications for business funding. It's really being unorganized in right because for anyone who is going to extend credit or capital to a business of of of any size, they're going to they're going to want to see some level of organization. an organization doesn't necessarily mean sophistication, meaning you need to be super sophisticated and have all of these financial models at your fingertips that are, you know, that are, you know, dead-on accurate all the time. Um, but I think you do need to have an awareness of how capital flows through your business. Um, how you use it. So, I think the use of proceeds is is is very important. how you intend to get a return on the capital that you Yeah. No matter what the cost of capital is, there's no reason to pay for capital unless it's going to generate revenue for your business in return. Y and I think um you know, putting all of those things together is, you know, is probably one of the the largest challenges I see for small to mediumsiz businesses. But I also see a big mistake is that you know when business owners go out to to get capital working capital they're not actually prepared for that discussion. Right. Right. So okay your books are a mess and and transparency. Right. So you know I speak to a lot of merchants and you know they're not ready. They're not transparent. They try to wing it and instead of saying look you know I'm terrible at keeping my accounting right. I'm busy running my business. Instead, you hear this whole story of why it doesn't make any sense. And then on the other side, you know, I say, you know, I listen to people and when I get a perfect answer on every question I ask, it it it also scares me a little bit, right? Like I want to know you're human. As someone who's going to extend capital to your business, I want to know you're human. I want to know what your strengths are, what your weaknesses. I want to know you're not bullshitting me. any financial company that's providing capital is going to want and and so you know just keep it real right I mean and that's one of the biggest mistakes I'm talking to a buddy of mine right who's in um consumer products I don't I don't want to say what you know but let's say creams vitamins supplements whatever stuff like that does very well and you know I'm on a call and he says you know I'm launching 15 products right now and you know this product's going to hit I'm going to make 9 million ion dollar and I'm going to this this this this and you know he's already at the bank making deposits he's counting this thing right but what I didn't hear is the plan on how are you going to make this product successful right how do you going to make this I mean forget about 15 right I and I try not to give opinions to people unless they ask me especially friends cuz you know that's how you lose friends right but so if you're going out and you're a small business owner and you're going to speak to a financial provider. They want to hear a plan. So, they're going to look at your, you know, how you're doing. They're going to look at your cash flow and all that, but they also want to hear a plan. What are you doing? The use of proceeds, like Bill said. What are you going to do with that money? How are you going to get to the result you're trying to get to, right? All right. So, um, what is the biggest misconception people have about getting business funding? that it has to be overly difficult or overly ownorous. I think there are if if you know your business as as as an operator, you can determine what financial product is suitable for your circumstance and and and your business. And there are I mean dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of of financial products out there. The one that you choose needs to fit your your your specific need. And I and I think that that's where that's where a lot of businesses struggle is where do I start? Right? This all feels so overwhelming. Um, everybody, every every financial product has their their their pitch. Um, and how do I how do I make that that that final determination? Yeah. But it's also not just how where do you start? It's like where are you now? And so, you know, all three things that we've talked about, the staffing, which is, you know, your employees, the growth, how you operate your business, and the funding, they're all very critical. But it's not just sometimes where you start, it's where you land. because a lot of people are not planning ahead and they now look look businesses can have, you know, downturn. They they can have a slowdown and nobody sometimes you can't anticipate it. Most of the time you can, but sometimes you can't. Um, and people just wind up here. They're in a hole. They're in a pit. That's right. And I think it's very important when you wind up in a pit, even though it feels like the world is closing in and the walls are caving, I think it's important to take a step back, breathe. It's going to be okay. I promise you it's going to work out. But take a step back, think about it, and think about what is the most important and best way to keep what's best about your business moving forward. and letting go what doesn't work. And people just can't let go sometimes, right? We're we're hoarders. We're hoarders for bad business decisions, right? A lot of small businesses hoard bad business decisions. Let them go. I think it's important for for business owners to be, you know, realistic about their specific circumstance. Yeah. Where where they are. I think that, you know, one of the consistencies that we see in, you know, in in transactions that become delinquent is um the embarrassment, right? It's it's having a hard time coming to the grips that, you know, maybe things aren't going as well as you would have planned and having to explain that to someone and and and and but that's okay. Absolutely. That's the way you figure out a path. I encounter the same thing. Look, whether you owe money to a credit card or business funding company, just call them and say, "Hey, I'm having a hard time. I need help." Well, you mentioned it. Every business has had has made mistakes. Yeah, that's okay. We're humans. It's okay. But when you ignore people, when you don't communicate, they're going to think, oh, you know, you just then they have to act. I think most problems in life can be solved, not just business, right? just communication. Talk to somebody, right? Nobody People are going to listen. They're going to understand. Our industry has exploded. Yeah. It's created a lot of opportunity for people to work in the industry and it's created a whole new way for businesses to attract capital. Right. So, working in the industry, what would you say somebody's hearing about this, whether they want to be a broker, operations, underwriting, salespeople, and investors? I mean, I have more investors calling me today than ever. If five years ago I had to explain to what this product is, it's a whole different conversations. I mean, my phones are lit up. So, let's just talk about people who want to go work for this industry. Just a few tips that you would give them. Yeah. So, um I mean you you mentioned I mean the product the industry and the product has evolved a lot in the last 10 10 to 15 years. It's become you know much more mainstream. It's an extremely competitive landscape. You know, having the financial acumen um and background or experience is only part of the equation, right? Every business and ours is one of them is um it's people, it's relationships. Um it is, you know, doing what or or or doing what you say you're going to do um when you say you're going to do it. Um, and I think if you're someone out there who's looking to get into a um, you know, what gets me excited about our business is the just the the fast-paced and competitive nature of it. Like we come in every day on Wall Street. We're friends, but Wall Street, we're also competitors. And, you know, I think you have to have that hunger to come in and and and and want to be focused uh, and compete uh, every day. So, last question. If you had to do it do this all over again, would you? Absolutely. No, I mean joining me on the podcast. Oh, no. Uh, definitely not. Bill, you know, you're um Thank you for joining me. I I we we we talk a lot offline and um you know looking at Bill you you realize that people have changes in life, dreams and you know you went from managing billions on Wall Street to possibly losing everything. You took a chance, you took a risk and uh while not all risks always pay off, I should say. Yeah. But um it's worth trying. It's worth taking risks. Yeah. And uh just calculate your risk, think about what you do, walk before you run, and uh thank you for joining my podcast. Um I hope you drop some comments, maybe subscribe, let me know what we should talk about next. What are your thoughts for bringing on, you know, amazing CEOs and presidents and entrepreneurs like Bill onto the podcast? And remember, when banks say no, there is unbankable. Well, Alex, I just want to say uh thank you. Thank you very much for having me. Uh it's an honor and a privilege to be part of the, you know, the early stages of of this podcast. You've been a very gracious host. Uh and uh and this, you know, I hope hope that folks have found this conversation to be uh to be valuable. Me, too. Thank you so much. Yeah. Good to see you.